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*Year Five: Detoxing from copper and understanding MTHFR 1298.

March 18, 2014

Hello Everyone,

I hope everyone following this blog finds this post in good health.  Please be aware I am not a physician and do not dispense any medical advice on this blog. This is my story of healing and the information here is what I found to help me through copper toxicity.

There has been a lot of commenting lately on my blog.  I am so glad we can all share experiences as this is how we can learn to survive copper problems.  It’s important to keep researching and keep asking questions as well as sharing our experiences with each other.  Thank you all who have been posting comments and showing your support.  I really appreciate it.

Since the onset of my copper toxicity issues I have gone through many changes in symptoms.  The worst of it was of course the super toxic phase for the first few years.   After trying to detox for quite some time I had to take a break.  I found out I have a genetic disorder (MTHFR 1298) that prevents my body from proper methylation  (ie; detoxing or metabolizing correctly).  I always wondered why I couldn’t tolerate many supplements, especially the detox supplements.  Taking a break from all supplements has been very interesting.  I have found that some of my symptoms disappeared all together.  Suggesting that some supplements were actually making me more sick in the first place.  And some of my symptoms have stayed regular for several years.  Currently, I only take Vita D drops and lots of magnesium.  I recently increased my magnesium dosage from 400mg to 800mg  daily and it has made a huge difference in my ability to handle stress.  And. this may be too much info but……too much magnesium will make you “go”.  Which can be helpful for me if the  copper is making me constipated.

My diet has been crazy the last few years. Everything from brothy soups to only veg to gluten free to you name it.  Some of it helpful, some not so much.  But I have decided, for me, the best thing is a mostly veg diet (organic) and chicken and lots of eggs.  Thoroughly cooked vegetables is best for my slow digestion. The less processed foods the better.  I do not consume any sugar, caffeine, chocolate, nuts, shellfish, avocados ,mushrooms, and spirulina.  These things are very high in copper and/or just too stimulating for my poor, drained adrenals.  Of course, once in awhile I do fall off of the food wagon and have some sugar.  I am only human.  And it usually takes me a little while to get back on track because sugar is so very addicting and I am so very sensitive to chemicals.  But once I am back on track things usually start feeling better.  I also stay away from bananas and other high sugar fruits.  Green apples once in a while seems fine for me.

I am still learning about MTHFR abnormalities/symptoms.  It is a very complex genetic issue to say the least.  If you are interested in learning more about MTHFR you can go to  I have recently made an appt with a MTHFR expert/educator in order to get some much needed guidance.  I will keep you all posted on how that goes.

In the meantime, I thought an update on my current symptoms might be useful to some of you.

So,  here goes……I am a 42 year old woman and currently have alot of hormonal fluctuations which are sometimes debilitating.  It is my belief that these hormonal swings are exacerbated by the copper toxicity and the MTHFR disorder.  So every month for about two weeks I get very ill with excessive anxiousness, unclear thinking, extreme weepines, extreme fatigue, lack of memory and concentration, elevated pain levels, dehydration, digestion issues/diarrhea, shortened sleep, noise/light sensitivity, as well as the classic copper symptoms of fear and panic.  The rest of the month I spend recovering from those symptoms just long enough for them to start all over again.  It is a vicious cycle that I am hoping to break soon.

My exercise is almost non existent.  I walk a few days a week if I am up to it.  I do not lift weights or cardio as this seems to cause relapses.  Walking in addition to  the occasional at-home 20 min yoga session is about it for me, for now.  I am really hoping this changes in the future.  As most of you know .I am a personal trainer and it has been extremely difficult accepting this new “level” or lack of level of exercise for me.   It’s been five years since the start of this healing process and the inability to really exercise hasn’t changed much at all.  Walking seems to be it most weeks.

I have had lots of relapses and recently found myself back on the couch and not functioning well at all.  When those adrenals get zapped, that’s it.  They’re done  There’s no quick fix.  It’s a long slow climb back up  that mountain.  Keeping things calm and taking care of the body is all you can do.  Give them rest and eventually they seem to get better.  But it does take time.

I am currently in one of those relapses and hope to learn from whatever mistakes I may have made.  In the meantime, I stay focused on eating healthy, getting lots of rest and keeping my thoughts positive or at least less despair-like.   I look forward to feeling healthier again one day soon  and will certainly let you know what helps get me there.

Wishing you optimal health everyday!



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  1. Hi Robin and Friends,
    Thank you for all of your information. I just spoke to the Nurse Practioner about my Copper Toxicity. I go to that office to do bio density for Osteoporosis. I gave her a copy of my test results for Blood, Urine, Stool and Hair tests done at Mensah. She agreed it looked like they were prescribing the right things to help detox. She asked me about other symptoms and I told her of the Depression and Anxiety, and any time I get a negative thought or a stressful phone call or a self induced negative thought, my face shoots RED and my forearm shoots RED and I am burning up. She asked me if I have diarrhea? I said yes, most of the time. She said to research “Carcinoid Syndrome”. I have a lot of the symptoms, it sounds scary. Just wondered if this is effecting anyone else out there? Hope everyone is doing well. I am getting ready to test again to see where I stand. My Copper isn’t really high but my free flowing Copper is high and my Copper to Zinc ratio is off. Blessings, Debby

  2. Hi debby, I just wanted to let you know that when my copper is high (blood level copper) i easily get erythemic (bright red skin). When my skin gets warm such as in the shower etc it gets really really red. And it stays red a long time. fyi. this has happened for years since the toxicity.


    • Hi Robin,
      Thank you for your comment. Mine Red flushing always happens when I am having a negative thought or I receive a stressful comment or phone call. It happened when the Doctor was trying to tell me about a possible cause as I wrote above, just going to that place in my mind stressed me and I shot RED. It happened again last night when my daughter came by and said something to me about complaining about not feeling well. She is 28 and has never understood why I don’t feel well and thinks I am complaining when I am not up to doing things.
      Robin are you still detoxing? Do you do blood tests to see how much free Copper you have in your blood? I did mention that I am going to be testing again soon. They are also going to test me for IGG Food Allergy. I pretty much eat the same foods most of the time. I have heard from others that you usually show high sensitivity to the foods you eat all of the time.
      I was told by the Doctor that I may always have a problem with Copper as my body doesn’t seem to process it out. I hope that this is not the case as I would like to get back to eating more of a normal diet. I think I feel even more anxious about what I put in my mouth since this diagnosis. Has any of your doctors told you a safe amount to eat daily. I think the average is 2 grams per day and if we are to eat low Copper diets would that be 1/2 1 gram? I haven’t heard, just eat a low Copper diet.
      I hope to hear more from all of you. Blessings, Debby

      • Hi debby,

        I also do not process copper out adequately due to a genetic mutation/disorder I have called MTHFR. You can learn more about MTHFR at You may want to research that.

        No I do not detox much these days due to the MTHFR. My genetic mutations need to be addressed first before asking my body to detox anything.

        I do not know the proper amount of copper for you. Or me for that matter. I just have learned over the years to stay away from much of the high copper foods. As I said before I eat mostly veg, chicken and eggs.

        There is a ratio of copper to zinc. But I dont remember it. I think it was 1:8 or something liike that.

        Copper is a neuro-stimulant. So for me, it was very important (and still is) to control my thoughts as much as possible. When I let my thoughts get stressed my body gets stressed and that can kick in copper symtoms such as fear, panic, etc. I have learned to really focus on keeping my mind calm through mediation and also just simply saying no to thinking negatively. It is a challenge to us “copper sensitives” but a very important survival tool.

        I hope you are feeling better soon. Stay calm and get as much rest as possible.


  3. Hi Robin and Friends,
    I just reread your Year Five. It seems you are still detoxing. I have felt bad since I was in my 20’s but thought it was stress in my life then got diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia. It may have been Copper Toxicity. The anxiety has been pretty bad off and on for the passed 10 years the doctors just add more Rx. Which I have never liked. I always want to eat Good healthy unprocessed foods and take natural supplements. Do you have a husband to help you, do you have children to care for? My husband helps when he can and works out of town some. He is leaving this week for 3 days and that adds stress, I want him here to help and I guess I am dependent on him for a lot do to not wanting to go get groceries etc… I have been feeling so bad for so long I was excited to find out there was something to diagnose and get rid of the Copper and have a normal life. I pray that it is over soon for me and all of you. Robin have you ever called Mensah Medical in Warrenville, IL? Heavy metals are there specialty. I am so thankful one of my friends found this blog. Do you wake up with anxiety? I do. I can’t lay in bed, when I wake up my mind fills with chatter and negative thoughts, I try to pray and think of good thoughts and I just get more anxious and feel nausea… Again I am thankful for this blog and am encouraged to find I am not alone. Blessings, Debby

    • I should rephrase my previous comment…….I do not intentionally detox copper. I have detox symptoms often. But I do not induce it due to the MTHFR.

      No I do not have a husband or children. Thankfully. That would have been too much responsibility for me. When I was very sick it was all I could do to feed myself and go to work. And there were many days I couldnt do that.

      I would like to encourage you to read “Why Am I Always so Tired?” by Anne Louise Gittleman. It’s at amazon. You will find copper can be the underlying culprit to fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, etc.

      I used to go to bed with anxiety attacks and wake up with them, yes. But not in a long time. I still have racing mind sometimes, especially around my period.

      Hang in there. It sounds like you are in good hands at Mensah. I have heard of them. But personally I just do better with naturpaths etc. I find the medical community to be very dismissive of my symptoms. Mensah is too far for me to travel for this. I really wanted to work with someone here in Tucson. That being said, I have found practitioners that will work with nee over the phone.

      Hang in there.


      • Hi Robin and Friends,
        What did you take to sleep while having the anxiety at bed time? I am on Rx for many years and would like to change when ever I can. I have the anxiety 24/7 until I take my Rx to sleep then sleep usually 4-5 hours, sometimes more but wake up with anxiety much of the time. Have you used Melatonin? I used it for many years with great results. Mensah said to take Inositol up to 3 capsules 3 times per day for anxiety, this can be found at the heath Food Store. Blessings, Debby

  4. I never took anything for sleep. as i dont tolerate pharmaceuticals. because of the mthfr.

    • Hi Robin and Friends,
      I did get Ann Louise Gittlemans book. I saw toward the back what to take to detox Copper and that is pretty much what I take from Mensah. She talks about Carl Pfifer, that’s where Dr. Mensah and Dr. Bowman worked before they started Mensah Medical. I wouldn’t have known about the book if I hadn’t read your blog, so Thank You. Funny when I saw her name I recognized it, I have bought her Books a long time ago, she has a book about detoxing every season, and many others. Robin I don’t know how you can work. I just walked around the block with my husband and Dog and I am soooo exhausted. I have to keep going due to the Osteoporosis and am hoping to do more as my body allows me to. I worked out at our local Gym for years I used to do Zumba and Yoga and weights…Thank You again Robin You are such a blessing for all of us. Debby

  5. Hi Debby, I understand. It is very exhausting. And I do rest ALOT. I nap everyday. And I have to limit my activity on the days I have to work. It was /is very difficult adjusting to my new level of “normal” physical activity. But I wouldnt be hard on yourself. Especially if you are detoxing, you need extreme rest and lots of it. I will stress again, sometimes it was appropriate for me to TAKE BREAKS from detoxing. The body can only handle so much at a time. Becareful with your detoxing regimen.

    Take care,

    • Hi Robin and Friends,
      I talked to Dr. Judith Bowman at Mensah Medical last week and she has agreed to retest me. They usually don’t like to repeat the test until 6 months. I wish I could nap, the anxiety keeps my mind going and I just can’t sleep with out sleeping pills which I don’t like to take. How often do you get tested for your Copper levels? My levels aren’t real high but my Copper to Zinc is off and it shows that I have high levels of % free flowing Copper. Hope this finds everyone doing well. Thank You Robin… Debby

      • Hi Debby,
        My copper levels never showed up high in my blood. Just my ceruloplasmin was off. I dont get retested. I can feel when my copper is getting too high. My body starts to not function well, especially my brain. Sounds like you are in a good place to get help. I hope it goes well for you there. Have you taken any breaks from detox yet to let your body recover for a bit?


      • Hi Robin and Friends,
        I am getting the paper work in the mail soon I will write when I get it. They are also doing a food sensitivity test too. As I began eating dairy and it doesn’t set well with me, but I was trying to get more calories in, as I got down to 112 trying to eat low Copper.
        I am looking at the last test It says Copper 118 High, Zinc 97 Normal, Cu/Zn Ratio 1.22 High normal, Histamine 60 normal due to medication I am on, Urine Kp 9.35 borderline, Ceruloplasmin 22.8 Normal, Vita D 25 Hydrroxy 72 Normal, TSH 1.1 Normal % Free Copper 42% High Homocysteine 8.6 Normal.
        They also did urine, Stool, and Hair. Last week I talked to the Doctor and she said that I could take 2 capsules in the am and 2 in the pm instead of the regular 4 capsules. I am having a lot of nausea in the am’s. Since cutting down I don’t feel any different. I will check on the tests they are retesting and let you know, Blessings, Debby

      • can you tell me what blood tests they did on you at mensah? copper serum, ceruloplasmin, zinc serum. and % free copper???

    • I was diagnosed with copper toxicity I have been to so many Dr’s and even though I now have a diagnosis there’s been no Dr I can find that knows what to do I’m 29 and have been sick as long as I can remember the symptoms ive had are debilitating at times I’m just now starting detoxification with vitamins and the headaches are almost unbearable I have felt complety alone ever since so thank you so much for letting me know I’m not alone

      • Hi. I know healing and detoxing is a very lonely road. I am so sorry you are struggling. It is a very difficult thing to go through. My heart goes out to you and I hope that you are feeling well again very soon. Keep going. Persevere. And no that you are not alone. It does get better. Take care.

  6. Elizabeth permalink

    Robin,After 20 years of pain and despair, this is the only man that helped. I’m free now. Follow your intuition. I did. It’s not hocus pocus. He’s a normal man w a divine gift. I’m 23 now and free. Feel free to ask any questions. Don’t believe any dr that tells you that this is something you’ll always have to live with. I was in bed for 20 years, never thought I’d have a life. But everyday gets brighter.
    I’ve had to be a detective all these years too. Read the testimonials. Pray on it. It’s just a phone call. You’ve already spent thousands. It’s not BS. Was skeptical and nervous. My gut told me to try, what’s one more phone call? Was my last phone call. Good luck.

    • Hi Elizabeth. Can you tell me specifically how this person helped you? What were you symptoms before and after he treated you? What was the treatment exactly? How long were you treated and do you have ongoing issues/treatment? Need info. How did you find this person?

      Thanks, Robin

  7. Elizabeth permalink

    Didn’t mean to comment twice! Thought the first one didn’t go through! I Never comment on stuff…..

  8. Scott permalink

    Hi Robin, my partner and I both have copper toxicity and have been intentionally eliminating/ detoxing copper for almost a year.(before that we had been experiencing copper detox symptoms unknowingly for about 10 months) We confirmed our problem with a hair analysis…we both had high copper and very low calming minerals. This combination caused us debilitating symptoms from constant headaches for almost 3 months and frequent recurring headaches for about 6 more months. Other symptoms equally stressing anxiousness, anxiety, exhaustion, insomnia and not exactly depression but more like mind and emotional numbness. We are still eliminating copper almost 2 years later, as confirmed by a hair test every three months or so. We are quite a bit better and can feel almost normal if we do not have too much on our plate, which is quite an improvement from over a year ago, when just sitting around all day was still a challenge to keep it together. One thing that seemed to help us was taking “methionine” (it helps to bind copper similar to ceruloplasmin) There is a product from “Endo-met Laboratories” called “ICMN” that contains methionine and a few other B vitamins. You could also by methionine separately from a health food store, not sure if the other B vitamins in the ICMN product are needed for it to work. When we took about 500mg of methionine throughout the day our copper symptoms went down and as confirmed from our hair test; our copper elimination in our hair went way up. (This is a was a very good shift more elimination with less symptoms) Not sure if you tried hair analysis but it has helped us to bring things under control quite quickly.(6 months) We have been using Dr. Wilson’s and ARL protocol minus the glandulars and with much lower dose of zinc…otherwise we would crash from the intense detoxing. We take more vitamin C and B complex than they recommend to replace the glandular products. We also tried Dr Lam’s high liposomol vit c and b5 protocol. The b5 or pantethine(metabolically active vit b5) seemed to help… vitamin C seemed to help, if it was ester-c or another common type of vit c but when we attempted to use liposomal vit c and not even a large dose… it seemed to cause a major copper dump which caused a set back for a few weeks. I’m sorry that I am being rather short in my info but there is so much information on this topic. Have you read the articles on Dr. Wilson website or ARL website. Even the articles on nutritional balancing on a whole are very relevant to copper excess, in context to all the mineral relationships. A key to reducing the worry and fear cycle that copper toxic people are burdened with is to correct your calcium/ magnesium levels which can be confirmed by hair analysis. As our levels of those minerals corrected we began to have more of a buffer from the stress reaction. Hope this helps, I normally wouldn’t comment on a blog or chat forum but when I read that 5 years later you are still having issues with copper I thought I should say at least a few things that have helped my partner and I.

  9. Scott permalink

    Forgot to mention we are doing Dr. Wilson’s and ARL’s protocol minus the coffee enema’s and sauna’s… would cause an intense detox and we find we are detoxing enough already with copper levels on our ARL hair test between 12.9 and 17.3. (7.5 is off the graph and normal copper levels are around 2.5) You do not want your phase one detox pathway to exceed your phase two detox pathway.

    • Hi Scott, thank you for writing. I always appreciate hearing people’s experiences with copper/detox. I did Dr. Wilson’s program for 6 months and got considerably worse. Was told to stay the course. But things weren’t getting better so I discontinued. Your feedback is very helpful though. Thank you for sharing it with me. I will look into researching some of that info for myself. Good luck with your health as well.

    • Posts like this make the inetenrt such a treasure trove

  10. Merrill permalink

    HI Robyn, I agree wholeheartedly with Scott’s comments 🙂

    I have been on Dr Larry Wilson protocol now for about 2 1/2 years.
    I’m 52 and certainly understand the hormonal fluctuations!!

    The first 6 -9 months were “worse”as my body began the journey to rebalancing but then showed steady gradual improvement.
    I had a lot of copper and cadmium and candida to detox the product of drinking high copper water for 25 years!

    I can only encourage you to consider it again as I am substantially better than when I wrote on your blog last – timeframe Year 2 detox for you I think.

    Dr Wilson has recently introduced a product called TMG which addresses the methylation issue which many with copper overload suffer from. That and lysine have certainly helped eased the copper symptoms and aid the detox,most of the time. Great addition to the program.

    I would encourage you to read his article on TMG on his website.

    The practitioner I work with is , I find , excellent. His name is Todd Lizon – he is trained by Dr Wilson.
    His support by phone, email, webinar is wonderful and I would highly recommend him.
    He works with people from around the globe and face to face if they are in his area.:)

    The TMG made a big difference to me Robyn as I was definitely undermethylating.

    Possibly worth considering intuitively 🙂

    Merrill 🙂

    • Hi Merrill,

      Thanks for the new supplement info.. It’s always good to hear of new things to try. I really appreciate the info and will consider and research the product. Soooooo glad to hear you are feeling much better. That’s fantastic news! Keep up the good work with your health. Wishing you optimal health everyday.


    • Renae permalink

      Hi Merrill,

      I have gone through a horrific three and a half years with what was first diagnosed as seizures triggering directly into the fear region of my brain keeping me in a permanent state of terror 24/7. After a relapse in my recovery and further investigations I discovered copper toxicity which matched all my symptoms including the fact that I had a copper iud for five years. I also live in Australia and am about to commence on dr wilsons programme with dr Todd Lizon- I see you have worked with him for three years now and I’d love some feedback about your experiance with not only the programme but also dr Lizon.
      I hope everyone on this forum is working through their struggles…

      • Hi Renae. I am so sorry to hear about your health issues. It is extremely difficult working through the fear and panic that copper causes. Since copper is a neuro-stimulant I make sure to stay away from all other stimulants such as sugar, chocolate, coffee, etc. even some herbs are very stimulating. I wish you well and hope that you are feeling better soon. keep us all posted how you do with Dr. Wilson’s program.


  11. leah kennedy permalink

    I am just realizing that the iud I have is most likely whats causing my oh so many symptoms including the fatigue amd manic depression as well as all the others listed. What do I do? How am I going to take care of my daughter now. Will doctors take me seriously is there a place or orgamization to recieve help. Can I get on disability until I feel better. Until now I thought it was just me falling apart for no good reason but there were too many symptoms. My always clear skin has alien acne my always low blood pressure is rising my heart pounds I feel nausea for no reason cant remember a damn thing not even words so now I have social anxiety reg anxiety paranoia the list goes on. How will I make ends meet in recovery does the Social Security Office recognize this as an ailment I guessy mental status should be enough.

    • hi Leah. I’m so sorry it’s taking me so long to get back to you. I was out of town. I’m sorry to hear that you are struggling with copper toxicity. it is very deit is very debilitating to say the least. I certainly hope you are feeling better soon. please email me with any questions. You may also refer to my copper resource page on my blog. It lists several things that might help you learn more about copper toxicity. going to copper detox can be very scary. and I understand your concerns. That’s why I developed the blog. So that we could all support each other through this is really difficult time.keep me posted on your progress. And please let me know if you come across any therapy that seems to work really well for you and your detox.take care and be well. I’m wishing you optimal health every day. Robin.

  12. Hi Robin, Thank you so much for your blog, and for your responses to people.

    Just starting on this journey. I had a copper IUD inserted many years ago when I was 19… and a deep depression ensued. Can’t remember how many years I had it, but I think about 7 or 8. Plus I have been estrogen dominant all of my life, and had an extremely traumatic early childhood that probably set all of this off with adrenal fatigue and resulting low ceruloplasmin.

    I read your posts in the beginning years, but have not had time to read them all yet, but I will. I remember at one point the Nutritional something something NRT seemed to be working for you and you were encouraged and had a person you trusted working with you. But in this comment thread you mention you are looking for someone local again.

    Since I’m just starting, and I’m trying to learn what worked and hasn’t worked for people, can you pls tell me if the NRT stopped working for you or what the issue was that caused you to stop?

    I would really like to write to Anna Louise Gittleman and Theresa Covert(?) can’t remember if that’s her last name, but she uses Gittleman’s protocol to treat patients with CT… it took her 12 yrs to recover… and ask them what percentage of people recover from this. Theresa, on another blog about CT by a woman named Maria, said that she had epileptic seizures and after YEARS, as in 12, of treatments finally at one point her HTMA analyses suddenly dropped, and her seizures stopped and that was it. That was from a 2012 interview that Maria had with Theresa… I don’t know if her symptoms returned or not.

    Also, I am trying to understand about the hair tissue testing. Does that represent bound copper (eg in tissues like brain, liver, etc) or does that represent unbound copper?

    The website called with its own lab (a split off from the ARL folks after Eck’s death) says that the hair analysis is equivalent to soft tissue levels from the follicles.

    thanks if you have any insight to that.

    Also, someone above mentioned l-lysine as part of the treatment protocol. I think I am going to begin with it. A dr Zodkoy has developed a treatment protocol for PTSD for the troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan… it targets neurotransmitters and apparently quickly resolves fatigue issues. Sorry don’t have the link at the moment, but he has a book about Adrenal Fatigue (see amazon) and all the diseases that it causes, as well as a facebook group. I want to ask him if he specifically diagnoses or treats CT. I personally think there is a lot of overlap of symptoms and causes of PTSD and copper toxicity, with adrenal fatigue being one of the common denominators.

    All the best Robin… thanks for the good work you do here. It is appreciated!


    • Hello Carol,
      Thank you for telling me about your copper story. It is a really difficult thing to figure out. And even more difficult to survive/heal from it. To answer a few of your questions: The NRT practitioner I saw did help for a about a year or so. But then I just kept seeing the same pattern of symptoms repeating month after month. I decided to give her a break and go off all my supplements and go back to square one. To see if I could identify what was causing the pattern etc. I initially felt better for a month or so. But then the same symptoms set back in. So I would say to myself, why continue to go to the NRT person if the results were not that I was continually getting better and stronger…???? I found that I had just hit a certain level with her that we could not get past. A plateau.

      As far as the HTMA, I only had two done. I understood that it measured tissue levels. And I didnt see it neccassary to get more repeated hair tests. I figured I knew my body well enough to know if I was getting better, I would feel better.

      I wish I could be of more help to you. I personally have hit a stand still point with my own detox. Currently looking for someone that can help with mulit-level detox/toxicity issues due to inherited genetic disorders. (MTHFR, etc.) I have found that my health seems to be a bit stuck as of late. Supplements dont seem to help and I am very sensitive to them anyway. Something someone is told to take 2 per day, for me, I may only be able to take 1 per week. So it’s a bit of a problem.

      Anyway, if you come across anything that drastically makes a difference in your healing/detox process please do share that with me! I would love to know more. Good Luck and keep in touch. Wishing you optimal health everyday.

      Be Well,

      • Thank you so much Robin for your reply! It is hard to know which comes first, PTSD or copper toxicity. I guess they work hand in hand. I have accomplished so much in my life, to find myself fear-based is tough. Now that I recognize it, I think I can move beyond it. Motivation is really tough. Hoping the l-lysine will help.. tho it will take a while to get it here in MX.

        Big hugs… thx again … I appreciate SO MUCH your honesty and sharing on your journey!


    • Also in regards to the PTSD. YES! The copper (and other heavy metals) has a direct link to PTSD. The metals make are adrenals and brain hyper vigilant which can create ptsd. I constantly struggle with PTSD around eating certain foods or supplements that I have had bad reactions to. Now my brain makes me afraid to eat ANYTHING! It’s awful. And it happens often. Once those thought patterns are set in the brain the PTSD ensues. Any traumatizing event will do the same. Currently working on ways to manage the PTSD.

  13. Thak you carol for writing me. It keeps me sharp and learning new things about myself and detox. Keep me posted on your progress! xoxox Hang in there it does get better.

  14. Hi Robin,

    I think you have the MTHFR issue and copper detox reversed. MTHFR (and other genetic polymorphisms) are not genetic defects, they’re genetic differences, that can be ‘turned on’ or ‘off’ by various other things — like toxins.

    High, or unbound copper is one of them, as are pesticides, fungicides, other pollutants, and on and on. But regarding the copper, it’s my understanding that the problem is due to a lack of the protein the normally binds copper and other metals, metallothionein.

    I’m not sure what all is needed to create more metallothionein, but have read that histidine and selenium are two critical factors.

    Also, alpha-lipoic acid will bind to copper and pull it out of the body, according to Andrew Hall Cutler, PhD.

    • thanks for clarifying. If I used the word genetic defect it is only because I am still figuring out the best language for describing MTHFR and this very complex genetic issue. It sounds like you are very knowledgeable on the subject. Question: I thought ceruloplasmin was the protein that binds to copper to carry it out of the body? Do I have my info wrong? Would love to continue to share info. I’ve learned alot from these open forums. I’m also a member of It has been a challenge to understand this very complex subject. I welcome any and all information you may want to share here. 🙂 I understood that the MTHFR can have a great impact on detoxing most metals as well as other toxins. I did not know about the alpha-lipoic acid. Thanks. Unfortunately, whenever I take anything that catalyzes detox I get very ill. It renders me unable to work and wreaks havoc on my central nervous system. How is one to go about detoxing if they don’t tolerate detoxing? Any suggestions????


  15. Alex permalink

    Have you done parasitic cleanse? When the copper is high and zinc low the body might be more susceptable to parasite infections due to low stomach acid for example. Oxygen therapy is also very beneficial for low energy levels. Food grade H2O2 does miracles with energy levels.(personal experience).

  16. Edwin Jonker permalink

    Hi Robin,

    Some years ago I discovered for myself that I had extreme copper toxicity, localized mostly in specific regions of my brain. I’ve suffered from depression and anxiety since early childhood and have never been able to gain an acceptable quality of life. This toxicity seems to be caused by some unknown genetic mechanism combined with environmental factors. It’s actually a family trait, since most of my relatives of my fathers side suffer from symptoms of varying degrees.

    I spend the last couple of years to find effective supplements to deal with detoxing myself. Based on some of the same resources you have found. So far I’ve been fairly succesful with a very aggressive detox. Although I reckon it will take me at least another year to finish my detox, nothing else has come closer to resolving my anxiety and depression issues, and my general fatigue.

    The reason I’ve posted this message is that I would like to share some insights with you, personally, if you like. You can contact me on the e-mail address I’ve used for commenting.

    Kind regards.

    • Hi. Of course I would love to hear any information you would like to share! That’s what makes this blog so great is that we can all share valuable health information! Please do…


      • Edwin Jonker permalink

        It might be a little too much information to just post in a reply. Can I share my information through mail so you can either make a “guest post” or do whatever else you want with it?

  17. Renae permalink

    Hi Robin and others,
    I also have gone through a hellish three and a half years trying to understand what’s wrong with me. It began in late 2011 with a feeling of fear that sat in my chest and racing thoughts, I had never experienced anything like this and felt if I could just get some sleep I’d be ok. I tried sleeping meds which made the problem worse and then my dr put me on anti physc’s saying with my busy lifestyle my brain just needed a break- this also my symptoms much worse and I was placed on anti dep. all of these medications sent me completely insane and I ended up in emergency. I was adamantly told I had anxiety which I vehemently denied- I was not an anxious person, this was something happening within my body! The next four months were complete insanity- I lost 20kgs, couldn’t eat, sleep our speak with my mind just racing with fear 24/7 and no one could help me. Thankfully a neuro preformed an EEG and discovered on going seizure activity in my brain, removed me from all my meds and put me on anti seizures. I’ve spent the past three years slowly recovering (with ongoing symptoms- anger, fear, fatigue, hair loss, a strange kind of depression, ovarian cysts) only to have fatigue become an issue again several months ago, after blood tests it was discovered I had anaemia. I was given an iron infusion which made me feel amazing temporarily but then threw me right back to where I was three and a half years ago. (I ended up with iron poisoning with a ferritin level of nearly 500) In the last eight weeks I have now been piecing together how iron could have done this and everything points to copper! I had a copper iud in from 2000 till 2005 and became pregnant immediately with my second child. This was the only other time I’ve ever felt I was losing my mind with pure fear 24/7 (apparently copper dumps in pregnancy?) I have every single copper toxicity symptom down to the seizures which I believe only started due to the copper. The problem I’m having is my bloods and urine show normal/low copper as does my hair analysis (I’m awaiting on a more accurate one from ARL) has anyone else had these results- I’m fully aware of “hidden copper” but also don’t want to be chasing something which may not be there?? I believe another person here is working with Todd Lizon- how do you find him? I’ve spoken with him and he seems lovely but I’m dubious of all the supplements required also I’m terrified to detox as I don’t know if my fragile little mind can take it- I also wake most mornings with a fear like panic and am able to slow my racing mind with counting breaths and stern “no’s” but sometimes it just overwhelms me. Also, for the person asking about a more preferable medication for sleeping, I use Ativan- only 0.5 mgs is enough to help me at night. I’d love to hear from the people doing dr wilsons programme as well as from people that initially had hidden toxicity.

  18. Hi Robin,

    I just wanted to let you know how validating it was to read what you wrote, especially in this last blog. I too had a copper IUD inserted in June of 2009 (coincidence??) and had suffered a lot since. I am an anxious person to begin with; after the insertion I became downright suicidal.
    I finally learned how bad the IUD was and had it removed, about 6 weeks ago. I made some improvement with my mood but like you, I keep re-detoxing and each time it’s a wonder that I make it out alive.
    And, like you, I have many many food/supplement/medicine intolerance which prevents me from treating my many symptoms. What’s interesting is that a few months ago I had spoken to a naturopath who specializes in the MTHFR! I was hesitating to do the test because I had pumped so much money into alternative healing that I need to be sure that it’s worth it.
    Following your story makes me think that I have some hope of finding a way to actually and get better. Just the thought of a lifetime of struggle with mental health and digestive issues brings me to my knees.
    Thank you for sharing! You never know when you’ll have touched the right person and give them hope…
    G-d bless you!

  19. Teresa permalink

    Hey Robin, hoping you received my email regarding IV vitamin therapy. I’m excited. I started yesterday…and my symptoms are terrible currently! This excites me because I am seeing things happen! Yes I feel like crap, but I’m confident I will chelate this Copper out and maybe meet myself for the first time in 12 years!

  20. Brett permalink

    Hi Robin,

    How is treating your methylation issues going. Have you looked into any supplements that boost such things, I saw one reader before mentioned TMG but I know there is also good reports of boosting methylation using similar yet stronger supplements like SAM-e and methionine.


  21. I am in month six of copper detox and it’s been incredibly challenging and difficult. At times crippling. Has anyone gotten to the other side? Does it really work? Is it worth going through all I this?

    • Michele5050 permalink

      it is worth it. I saw most benefit when I started taking high doeses of vitamin c to clear liver and Alpha Lipoid acid.

  22. All of you people are victims of a scam called copper toxicity – the real problem is copper dysregulation. That’s why it takes you so much time without results – please search and read interviews with Morley Robbins – he have the real knowledge about copper – Mensah and Wilson are either stupid or greedy – the net is full with people taking their wrong advice and going nowhere.

  23. Debra permalink

    Hi Robin,
    Not sure if you are still active on this blog, but I currently live in the Tucson area. Are you still in Tucson as well? I met with a doc here, that uses Wilson’s protocol, several years ago. I was not able to swing the monthly cost of the supplements at that time. But I was able to swing a sauna, which has been very helpful. I would love to share experiences to potentially brain storm and help each other. My levels for copper tested high, but that doc thought it possible that they could actually be low. That kept me from investigating that possibility, foolishly. I too have the MTHFR factor complicating matters. I’ve run the gamut of numerous doctors and protocols trying to reclaim my health, diet changes, mold illness, MTHFR, and on, and on, and on. I’ve recently realized copper toxicity is likely the reason for the numerous issues I’ve been dealing with for the last 5 or 6 years, and the neurological issues continue to progress, along with tinnitus, gut function, skin issues, sensitivities, etc. I’m pretty sure I found the reason why too. I have made some headway, found certain things helpful, others not so much. If you might be interested in communicating, please email me using the email I’ve provided to post this comment.

    • Hi thanks for your post. Yes I am still in Tucson. Feel free to email me directly and we could touch base. Take care. Robin.

  24. Kacee Walker permalink

    Do any of the supplements you take contain folic acid? With my mthfr mutation, folic acid (the genetically manipulated chemical concentrate designed to replace folate, also sometimes labled as vitamin b9 ) is almost always the culprate to my function or lack thereof. Absorbancy also tends to be an issue, so if liquid form is avalible, that usually works better… for me anyways. I currently have to supplement potassium, magnesium, b12 (or b complex without folic acid), folate, zinc, d3, and niacin. Niacin is the counteracting mineral that brings you back down if you over methylate (Which with mthfr is close to imposible to do, but does happen).

  25. Michele5050 permalink

    I know if you’re in a slump its hard to function. So I hope and pray you’re ok. One symptom I notice is that my mind wants to do something but not sure what. Usually i compulsively eat, ut i
    Im using ACVand lemon and its stabilizing my blood sugar. I saw the Menhas clip and it talked about pathways short circuiting and thats what its like. Very odd symptom. I more aware of my inactivity but still too weak to exercise too much.

    • I am so sorry to hear this. Yes when I am havinga flare up I too do not function well at all. I am currently experiencing this. I hope you are feeling better soon!

      • Michele5050 permalink

        Hi heal from copper. For some reason, you came up today to ask if you have tried Alpha Lipoid acid supplement for your detoxing. I’ve used Solgar’s chelated,form with cinnamon in it (at health store) it seemed to get it out of my bones and tissue . Also, i’m thinking that there are receptors in the body that need to heal and be replaced with other minerals . So stay encouraged if you’re in a slump. I take 5k of vitamin C a day..Yes 5,000 for the last month. I’ve been fine as it’s water soluable. I also use montebnum. tremendous help. Hope your slump days come o an end soon

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